PODCAST EPISODE: Stress Inoculation & Arctic Exploration

Last week, I had the pleasure of being hosted by Alastair Green, also known as The Outdoorsy Educator. I had never done a podcast interview before, so I was a bit nervous going in, but I felt truly honored to be invited. Alastair is passionate about hiking and found me because of my experience hiking the 1800-mile Te Araroa Trail in New Zealand. While that’s how he discovered me, he was even more interested in talking about my previous career, which took me to places like Guam and Greenland and pushed me to my limits around the world. We talked about how the challenges I faced during my travels and military service helped me learn to manage stress in a healthy way, which gave us an opportunity to discuss a concept that I think is extremely valuable for both an outdoorsy adventurer and an office professional alike: stress inoculation.

Stress inoculation is such a valuable practice. To place yourself in situations that are not dire, but push you to feel the burden, the pressure, of having to think critically and efficiently in an uncomfortable situation. The outdoors can give plenty of those (and as Alastair will share with us, sometimes a smidge too much discomfort to the point of danger). Yet, those lived experiences also provide us with an opportunity to relax into other situations that would otherwise have us paralyzed... because you know, you can do worse.

Of course, this is just one part of our 48-minute conversation. We also talked about access to the outdoors, the challenges of making it more accessible, but also how people’s perceptions of what it means to get outdoors can get in the way of their experience. We dive into how people can rethink what “adventure” means and what it means to be an outdoorsy person, especially in a world that often puts thru-hikers and mountaineers on a pedestal.

I’m extremely proud to have been brave enough to step into the world of podcasting for the first time and share a little bit about my life journey, some of those crazy adventures, and some lessons learned in the outdoor recreation industry I’m so passionate about.

You can listen here, or on your Spotify app now.

OR if it is better access for you, the transcript if provided for you below.

And don’t forget to visit @theoutdoorsyeducator on Instagram for future episodes—and hopefully, I’ll be back again soon.

Listen Now on Spotify:

Transcript

Alasdair Green, The Outdoorsy Educator: On this week's episode of the Outdoorsy Educator podcast, we have Doctor Alexandra Swanson. Alexandra, how are you today?

Dr. Alexandra Swanson, Move the Journey: I'm doing lovely. How are you?

Alasdair: Oh, wonderful. It's good to connect. I found you through, Andy Neale. Andy. Films and hikes. looking at his page, I found yours and realized that we, could well be kindred spirits. Very much into similar things. Have similar beliefs. So I'm excited to get to connect with you and have a talk this afternoon. Why do we tell people? Tell people a little bit about who you are.

Alexandra: Sure. So my name is Doctor Alexandra Swanson. I am in outdoor recreation, of course, but not where my career started off. I'm an 18 year military veteran that decided to take a direction in my education and leadership consulting, focusing on the outdoor industry and how we can help build better and stronger communities to bring people in and to help leaders also work with the diverse, bipartisan industry that we are to become a more united front and learn how to speak with one another better.

Alastair: I love it. I mean, we could all benefit from that. what branch of the military were you in? Can you tell us a little bit about your career? Because, I mean, you said 18 years. That's a long career in the middle.

Alexandra: Yes. It's been with US Air Force. My most recent rank that I held, still as a military reservist is Major. As I stand here today, I am representing no input from the Department of Defense or the Department of War, and I speak all of my own thoughts and ideas in this capacity. But. Right. I'm a major. I have been with the US Air Force for a very long time, and we will see how that pans out here in the future. But it's a very proud and stoic culture that I have come from. I'm a fifth-generation military member, so I had. Yeah. we had a German Van Buren in my family back in the American Revolution. And so even though I'm a good old hippie from California with a father that graduated from UC Berkeley, and I definitely share some of those ideologies, this is a really proud heritage that has helped me do that. Crosstalk between people from different lives, to really help engage more with, building community.

Alastair: I love it. That's. And I know that one of the places. Correct me if I'm wrong. You were station was Greenland. Is that right?

Alexandra: Yeah. And that's that's one of those places. I wouldn't say it's a bucket list place necessarily, but that fascinates me because it's truly edge of the world off the radar for most people sort of place. So what was it like being stationed there in particular? Oh God, it was one of the most amazing experiences I could have ever had. have you ever researched anything about Greenland?

Alasdair: I've researched a little bit, but what I really know and what I quite like is everything is determined by the weather, the roads, whether they're open or closed. You know, I looked at the tourism website and I loved how vague a lot of it is because they're like, it just depends on the snow and just depends.

Alexandra: And I kind of love it. You might not have noticed that *ironically*. Also, most of the country is not connected by roads because there's we know about the ice cap right in the middle.

Alasdair:Right. Yes.

Alexandra: So the other thing is that the country has ice right in the middle. So first of all, it's owned by Denmark. Practically, it's part of the Kingdom of Denmark, even though it's its own nation. so the Danish I actually worked with for the most part while I was there. They had a huge contingency of contractors that work there. And the Air Force, United States Air Force works in support of that for both NATO, the UN, the multiple defense commands that take place, whether that was Space Command at the time that I was there, now known as the Space Force, and the European Command, but also the only way you can get it's so far north where I was located that you can't see the Northern Lights because they're so far south.

Alasdair: Wow. I didn't know that.

Alexandra: So there's certain places that it's just so remote that then we are the food stop for the Canadian bases up north doing Arctic research, where they only get food supplies twice a year because we only get one flight a week. So it's a really interesting launching point for all of the groups internationally that work together under NATO to discuss Arctic research. It develops an interesting environment. And one of the curious things was I got to work with the National Science Foundation while I was there, one of my first intros in the climate change initiatives. They used me as the civil engineer that was there, I helped them coordinate logistics and all of the supports that we could provide to them on the base, so they could launch out into the Arctic ice cap to just pull ice cores and see what was going on with the ice.

Alasdair: Just it literally does feel like another world. Almost like you're talking about going to the moon.

Alexandra: Almost. You know, it's it's so far off, so many of our radars, but it just looks like a fascinating place. It's one of the most interesting outdoor experiences you can have, too. When we had the bay freeze out there, I was able to cross-country ski on the Bay water there through half of the season. I remember we shut down the entire location because a polar bear print was found, so I was sending out teams and snowplows to go find these polar bears to make sure that we can reopen the location, because those guys [the polar bears]  are hungry and they will go after a person if you're not careful

Alasdair: I was going to ask you if they're we know about brown bears and black bears and things. Those of us that, you know, follow the outdoors and stuff in the United States, but polar bears and they sort of food aggressive or will they go after people if need be?

Alexandra: They are a starving breed. I mean, we have to think about the fact that and this was in 2014, that I was located there. Now it's 2025. We’re still losing more of the Arctic ice, and the more that they lose, the more opportunity they lose actually to find food sources. So where they find them, if they locate us, they do become a significant risk for human populations. One of the interesting things, though, is that we have community effort events tied in conjunction with the Danish personnel that are there to connect with the Inuit tribes. And there are several ones located around that area known now as Pituffik, which is the original native village name. And they will come together and they will sell their wares to the Danish community of hunting polar bear because it's one of their sources. In addition to the fact that they have to protect their own communities and their own dogs, which are their way of life when it comes to actual, you know, hunting dogs and sled dogs. So it's a really unique experience to get all of those cross-cultures, but also what it's like to be that close to the environment in such a harsh condition. That's so interesting when you're talking about that. It really reminds me, and I'll get the details probably wrong here in the north of Alaska. Excuse me. you know, you're in the United States. You can't just go out and just hunt whales. But there are certain Inuit tribes in the North, and they're allowed to. They have a quota because that's their literal food source is hunt whales.

Alasdair: Is it sort of a similar thing with polar bears? Like, are they protected completely or, you know, what's you know, or if you feel endangered, they're allowed to, you know, dispatch of the polar bears or what's the lore surrounding them, do you know?

Alexandra: The only thing I recall from my time there is you are if there was a significant threat [to life]. We didn't carry, weaponry there unless you were a security forces agency. and if there was a threat to life, of course. But really, those are some beefy bears.  A shot is not going to do anything. So what we would do is patrol and make sure that [the bears] were allowed to move on gracefully and keep everybody indoors until they had proceeded off of the location. However, and I would like to add, there are also regulations that Denmark has for that type of hunting From my recollection. , the Danish people that lived there were not allowed to hunt at all in that capacity. The Inuits were allowed to because it was their land. And I know that Greenland had specific regulations too sic for  their residents as well.

However, the transactional affairs for me as an American, as a US citizen. Excuse me, not American. We got a lot of America out here on the side of the hemisphere. the US citizenry were not allowed to purchase,

For example, the polar bear wares? I couldn’t buy. But the Danish can, because it's part of the commerce of Greenland.

Alasdair: I mean, that makes perfect sense, but so interesting. You don't think of it this of the nuances and the, of what happens with the polar bears and things. And I remember they're an endangered species. Right?

Alexandra: Right. It’s  a really interesting concept when you talk about how these major nations, major Western nations are taking place, in supporting how these native communities can still carry forward with their traditions, but still make sure that these, these animals are still being given a home and integrate. And it's very hard. I won't say that. I know that the bases in the military opportunities there, they are still industrial. We have to recognize that there's still a need for people to be in the Arctic, for the UN and the NATO communities to have that support there. But there's a lot of respect still that is given, particularly by the people that live there and particularly by the community of Denmark, to engage in what it means to have the Arctic climates stay stabilized and to the best of our ability as we continue to fight climate change impacts. So it was a really interesting dynamic for me as somebody who really believes in environmental policy, but also understanding the role of defense needs up in the Arctic.

Alasdair: Yeah, these situations, I think wherever you fall in your beliefs, there's an acknowledgement that they're complicated. and again, when you were speaking, it reminds me a little bit, I'll get the name wrong, but in the Faroe Islands, there's a I think it might … Is it the ground where they hunt the whales? it looks very barbaric. But there's, you know, a lot of sustainability that goes on. And this is the food source. And I don't pretend to be educated on it, but it just reminds me of that complicated moral dilemma, that we often face.

Alexandra: I totally agree with that. I don't know anything about the Faroe Islands. Right? but I relate to that. When I was a girl, I grew up in California, had a father from a very liberal arts background, and came from a small town in USA. My graduating class was 27 kids. My entire science department was Future Farmers of America. Right.  I learned in these communities a distinction between when we shouldn't be there and what we should support: environmental policy versus supporting native communities as they regrow their traditions and keep them from disappearing. You see the same thing in Smalltown USA versus urban city.

You see that here with Denver and the wolf population though, where Denver, who has no wolves, voted very differently than the two thirds of the state that was farmland. Agriculture, ranching, and the people who are severely impacted by that. Now, I'm not going to take a stance on the wolf, though I don’t know enough about it. But what I do know is that there is a severe and significant need for people to be able to talk and understand their own positionality, and understand why somebody might think a little bit differently about the same issue, and why it makes such common sense, both of you and your. And how do you how do you make that intersection actually to understand where the other person is coming from? So you can agree on something?

Alasdair: Absolutely. And you've actually I was looking through my notes there and something you've sort of, maybe not deliberately at all, segway into beautifully is one of your social media posts that I've really resonated with was you talked about following diversity on social media, not just people you agree with or look like or sound like or whatever it may be, but diversity, creates strong leadership. And I was wondering if you could talk to a little bit about perhaps why you posted that or not necessarily that specific post, but obviously this is something you believe in and any recommendations of people that we should maybe follow.

Alexandra: So I took on that conversation because I'm really passionate about the idea that the only way that you really understand why somebody is the way they are, why they think the way they do, and normalize them as a human and try to connect with them in the way that they experience life. Now, there's a lot of jargon in the world right now about this group in this sort of way. And the more that social media delineates what you like to hear about because you're like, “oh yeah, that resonates with me,” the more it will continue to push toward those ideas. There are some amazing books out there about the social media divide and its effects on our children and their education. What's it doing to us as a society?

While [social media is] not my specific subject of expertise, what I experienced in my organizational Change and Leadership program with my doctorate was the discussion of when you intentionally expose yourself to different ideas that you're not necessarily familiar with, you are forced to look at the world in a way that at least with the idea they’re presenting to you, so you have a new thought to follow. Social media is designed to give you the product you want to hear, and no matter how much people vilify social media, it's a tool. You’ll need to know how to use the tool. I know there are a lot of discussions about how it divides you, but that's the efficiency of the tool. You have to provide the new input.

Alasdair: I think that's so interesting. I think it's safe to say you and I probably have a similar political stance, and less than two years ago now. It was really funny. I put out a political sign in my garden, which I don't normally do, but I felt quite strongly about this, so I did. And my neighbor across the street, who we adore, put out an opposing one the same day. And it was really funny because it was a coincidence. It really was. He sent me a text saying, I swear we just got out today. This isn't because you put one up and we see things very differently; it really took a 10- or 15-minute conversation for me to go. You know what? If I had lived his life, I would probably feel the way he does, too. And if he lived my life, he said he'd see the world the way I see it. And all it took was it was sort of metaphorical and all these things. We literally stood in the middle of our quiet street and chit-chatted for ten minutes and really understood each other. Whereas a lot of times, people would shun the other side. but opening yourself up and just going, you know, tell me your story. Why is it you feel that way with no judgment? What’s led you to that path? I would love to hear it. I think about that moment a lot, especially given the sort of political turmoil that's going on just now.

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If you have read this far, thank you! This transcript has been a bear to build, even with AI attempting to do the audio translation. I won’t be able to finish the 8000-word transcription by the time of posting. BUT!!!! If you WOULD like more, if someone out there is interested and needs this support to participate, I’m happy to work the rest of the transcript for you later. Just leave a comment below, and I will respond in kind.